First, I'll finish an entry I began a few weeks ago. There's a debate going on right now over whether or not the Proposition 8 trial should be televised. If it isn't televised, the judge has agreed to have delayed broadcasts on YouTube. It should be interesting to compare this trial to these transcripts and those of other legislative debates in the states.
Another book I've been looking at is a reader edited by Andrew Sullivan and originally published back in 1997, shortly after the Defense of Marriage Act passed, called Same-Sex Marriage: Pro and Con - A Reader. It collects a lot of material from all sides of the issue of same-sex marriage, both historical and (at the time) contemporary, just as we are kind of doing here.
One thing I find really fascinating is the debate over DOMA on the floor of the House and Senate. For example, here is an exchange between Congressman Barney Frank (who, in case anyone doesn't know, is gay and a Democrat) and the late Congressman Sonny Bono, who was a Republican (whose daughter Chastity was a lesbian and has now transitioned to male.)
Mr. Bono: I just want to say this; I owe this to Barney, and I want to go on record that I'm not homophobic; I'm not a bigot, and I'm not pandering to hatred, and I like-I like Barney, and I love my daughter. I simply can't handle it yet, Barney. It's nothing - nothing else, but at least I want to honestly say that to you, and throw aside all the legal rhetoric. I wish I was ready, but I can't tell my son it's okay, or I don't think I can yet. So if I could -
Mr. Frank: Would you yield to me?
Mr. Bono: Yes.
Mr. Frank: I would ask that the gentleman have an additional minute, and I thank the gentleman and I appreciate candor and the decency that motivates it. I would say two things. It's not that I feel less. This bill says that I and many others are less. It says that-and no one is asking for a stamp of approval. What we're saying is, if we pay taxes, if we work, we simply want to be able to get the same financial benefits and the same responses other people do.
And secondly, in terms of handling it, and I understand that but no one is asking you to do any more than leave us alone and let us have the same rights as anyone else. Let us have the rights in any State that decides, because that's all the amendment says. If the state - if we can persuade a state legislature to do it, if we can win a referendum, if we can have a court decision not be overturned, let us be like anyone else. So no one is asking you to do anything else, and if it bothers people, turn your head, but don't inflict legal disabilities that carry out that feeling.
Mr. Bono: I ask for an additional thirty seconds.
Chairman Hyde: Without objection.
Mr. Bono: I hear you. I really do hear you. And my response back to you is, you're absolutely right, but the other side of it is this has taken people to as far as they can go, and then no justifiers - I don't want to justify it because I can't. You just go as far as you can go, and that's why I want to say to you again, honestly, I can't go this far as you deserve even, but - and I'm sorry, but I think that's the whole situation here, and I think we could argue it legally for hours and days, but that's what it's going to get down to. (pp. 223-224)
And a debate between Barney Frank and Congressman Hyde:
Mr. Frank: We are talking here about a desperate search for a political issue.
Mr. Hyde: Political! I wish I'd never heard of this issue. This is a miserable, uncomfortable, queasy issue. There is no political gain. But there is a moral issue. ... Nobody wants to talk about it. We are forced to talk about it by the courts. ...
Don't assume that people are doing this for political profit. People don't think the traditional marriage ought to be demeaned or trivialized by same-sex unions. If to men want to love each other, go right ahead. If you want to solemnize your love affair by some ceremony, create one. But don't take marriage, which for centuries has been a union between man and woman, and certainly is in this country, and try to say that what you're doing is American.
Mr. Frank: I guess my problem is this. There are plenty of people here who have had marriages that have meant a great deal to them. I salute that. I don't for a minute understand how it demeans, and I would ask the gentleman to explain that to me. The gentleman's marriage, the marriages of other members here, are based on a deep love, a bond between to people. I don't think I demean it. I don't know how I could demean it. How does anything I do in which I express my feelings toward another demean the powerful bond of love and emotion and respect of two other people?
To accuse someone of demeaning something so powerful as the marriage of two people, that is a fairly tough accusation. And I must tell you, my friend, I don't think it is deserved.
Mr. Hyde: A loving relationship between people of the same sex ought to be their relationship. It ought to be private, and keep it private.
Mr. Frank: You use the word demean, how does it demean you?
Mr. Hyde: Because many of us feel that there is an immoral -
Mr. Frank: How does it demean your marriage? If other people are immoral, how does it demean your marriage? That's what you are saying.
Mr. Hyde: It demeans the institution. It doesn't demean my marriage. My marriage was never demeaned. The institution of marriage is trivialized by same-sex marriage. (pp. 225-226)
There's so much to be said about this. So many issues are raised, here: public vs. private, for example; legislation and morality; and something that really surprises me: feelings! So often people claim that the legislative process is only governed by rational thought, but in fact, the way people feel about something is often the deciding factor in these cases. I also find it interesting that the question of personal relationships vs. the "institution" comes up a lot ... as if there's something somewhere - some object that exists outside of each separate marriage that is "the institution." Someone brought this up at our public meeting: that Hyde actually says don't take marriage, as if it's a commodity or solid thing that one group or another owns.
What are people's thoughts on this, I wonder? Please comment.
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